Israel is stepping up its military offensive in the Gaza Strip and Defense Minister Ehud Barak is warning that more is yet to come. “We are getting closer to carrying out a widespread operation in Gaza,” Barak told Israel’s Army Radio Wednesday, the Labor Party leader’s 100th day as defense minister.
As Barak readies an assault on the Gaza Strip, November peace conference and an embarassed Condi be-damned, it’s worth noting the one time peacenik’s hard turn to the right in recent months. “Competing with Bibi,” a headline in today’s Yediot said of Barak, suggesting Barak is staking out an even harder line than Likud leader Binjamin Netanyahu.
Barak has refused to move on dismantling illegal outposts, and demands a full-fledged missile defense shield before beginning a West Bank pullback. Barak has also panned Olmert’s negotiations with President Abbas, in doing so defying even his own pro-peace Labor party.
One theory has it that Barak is simply playing politics with an eye to regaining the Premiership. Thus he is seeking to revive his image which suffered a blow in 2000 after the Camp David peace talks fell apart followed by the disastrous Intifada. Writes Itamar Eichner in today’s Yediot:
The accepted answer in the political establishment is that Barak is behaving this way at the recommendation of his strategic advisers. The rationale is that Barak has to, on one hand, erase the public memory of the far-reaching concessions he offered as prime minister, which led to his removal from the post, and on the other hand, must differentiate himself from Olmert, who is proposing a political process.
17 responses so far ↓
1 Pappe // Sep 26, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I hope the peace conference will start to address the real issue: Is there willingness in the Palestinian side to allow for a Jewish homeland in the Middle East.
Everyone that keep demanding “Right of Return” (it is after all only a demand – not a real ‘right’) is actually going for the Ahminajad final solution: A single state solution – in which Palestinians are a majority – which ceases to be the Israel we know today.
If Palestinian want peace there is a very simple test: Renounce the demand for return and the demand to have millions of Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. A true two state solution is to find the best way to re-drew borders in a way that Most Jews/Israelis are in one side of that border and most Palestinians/Arabs are on the Palestine side of the border. If for such a solution some 200,000 settlers need to pack and move back to Israel – be it so. If some Palestinians who now live in Israel need to move back to Palestine – be it so as well. Peace for all 10,000,000 Palestinians and Israelis is not an issue of “pre-owned real-estate”.
2 Anony mouse // Sep 27, 2007 at 7:30 pm
How is it not a real right? Why do jews have rights to emigrate to Israel on land robbed from Palestinians? They may concede that right if they are compensated and allowed to return to a Palestinian state but only if Israel is willing to stop its occupation and withdraw from Palestinian territories including east Jerusalem. Peace depends only on Israel pure and simple. Will they give up the occupation and cease blockading Gaza? Will they cease dividing up Palestinians towns and destroying olive trees and fruit orchards? Despite hints that they will remove a few barriers here and there in the west bank, they have INCREASED the number of roadblocks and checkpoints in the past few months. The Israeli state is in denial about its terrorism against another people.
3 tsedek // Sep 27, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Soryy Anony Mouse, but this:
the real issue: Is there willingness in the Palestinian side to allow for a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. is where it’s all about. everything else you mentioned is a direct result of denying israel’s existence.
4 Yossi Gurvitz // Sep 27, 2007 at 8:19 pm
I doubt Barak was ever a peacenik. The concessions he was willing to make to Arafat in 2000 are meaningless, since he went to Camp David enjoy a whopping support of, count ‘em, 30 Knesset members. He knew he had no power to grant what he promised, so he sprinkled his promises liberally.
During the second round of talks, after the beginning of the Intifada, Barak was fighting for his political life (he lost soundly to Sharon, 66:34, the worst defeat in Israel’s political history), and was willing to promise anything to make the violence cease. Those promises, too, were empty, as he has even less a chance of carrying them out.
Barak has been a right-winger all his life. During the preparation for the 1982 war, he - then a young general - suggested to Sharon that the war should be extended to Syria, while hoodwinking the public. As a member of Rabin’s government, he voted against the second part of the Oslo accords.
Turn to the right? He was always there.
5 Shual // Sep 27, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Not “right-winger”, Mr. Gurvitz. “Realist”.
And he is a duo now: Barak + Ashkenazi.
6 Pappe // Sep 28, 2007 at 8:15 am
“Why do jews have rights to emigrate to Israel on land robbed from Palestinians? ”
In my many years dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (actually better terminology is the Jewish-Muslim conflict in Palestine) I have learned to be careful from those people who claim to seek “justice”.
There are Settlers: Their version of Justice has to do with what they think God’ promised them and of their version of History going back 3,000 years.
There are people with similar narrow minds: Their version of History only goes back 50, 120 years and their vision of Justice is similar to that of Ahminagad: “Return the Jews to Europe – it was not the Palestinian fault that Europeans were participants and complacent in the destruction of Europe Jews”
What these people seem to forget is that millions of the people who live in Israel today are refugees from Arab countries. They were kicked out in 1949-50 their property confiscated – has anyone ever bothered to create a UN agency to help these people ?
But the issue is bigger than “Justice” for past wrong. The issue is “Justice” for future generations. The worst that can take place is that the conflict will continue or that the Ahminagad solution will prevail and Jews will be kicked out yet again.
So if you really want “Justice” – stop talking to me about the past and take the present into account: Israel , as a Jewish homeland, is fact.
Now do you want a solution for the Palestinian people SIDE BY SIDE to Israel (with financial compensation to both Palestinians and Jews who lost property in this conflict)
or
Do you prefer a solution for the Palestinian people which is EARASING Israel and replace it with something else ?
This will tell us what kind of Justice you are looking for.
7 Anony mouse // Sep 28, 2007 at 5:11 pm
The erasing of Israel is an oft repeated lie. The Palestinians and other Arabs do not have the means nor the inclination to ‘erase’ Israel. This is a device to avoid facing the truth. Israel is the occupier and the possessor of power. The Arabs are neither. The angle you make up about the Israeli population being refugees from Arab countries is another myth. The majority of Israeli citizens are not from Arab countries. I am always careful of people who twist the meanings of justice to suit their own ends.
Sorry tsedek, you are hopelessly wrong. How can they deny the existence of Israel when they are occupied by the same? That is a blatant fib propagated to avoid real meaningful peace negotiations. Yes the palestinians have hardliners who will not concede an inch of historic palestine in theory, but if you listen to them they are in prepared in practice to settle for a two state solution. The only problem is you lot have turned a deaf ear and are only prepared to hear what you want to hear. As long as you remain deaf to the pleas for peace, there will be none. And that suits you because you figure that eventually all Palestinians will either die or despair and leave. That is why you are grabbing the choicest land in the Jordan valley and putting up even more road blocks and continuing your attacks. Face these facts, face the fact of what you are doing and stop it. Stop you persecution if you are actually concerned about peace.
8 Pappe // Sep 28, 2007 at 5:36 pm
To anonymous: The issue is really not your own assessment if it is possible to erase Israel or not. You may think it is not possible but the Hamas still think in due time it will be possible and that is why they keep their charter focused on erasing the Jewish homeland from the Middle East.
As for Jews who are refugees: The overwhelming majority of Jews in Israel today are either refugees themselves or decedents of refugees. Since the definition for “Palestinian refugee” include decedents of refugees – Jewish refugees should be based on similar definition.
Most Jews today in Israel are either Sephardim or Part Sephardim which would make over 50% oF Israelis as people whose families were kicked out from Arab lands.
But let set aside all those arguments about the past and focus on the future:
If Indeed there is willingness for peace it should be expressed clearly as willingness to have two states in the area that is now Israel+Palestinian territories: One state which will always have a clear Jewish majority and one for the Palestinians. This is at the core of the problem and the core of the solution. All the talks about “Israel is the occupying power” is just geared toward refusal to accept this simple and equitable solution: Two states for Two people: Move all the Jewish settlers into Israel proper and draw the borders of the Palestinian state in such way that all Palestinians will be in the Palestinian side of the border not part of Israel. Simple. Borders should be done in a way as to minimize the number of those who need to move few kilometers to be included in their own state.
Until such time as Palestinian will refuse to accept this it means one thing and one thing only: Refusal to accept the right of the Jewish people to a homeland in the Middle East and an on going desire to control such state via an ever growing Palestinian/Arab demography.
9 Anony mouse // Sep 28, 2007 at 7:25 pm
We agree on the two states solution but you come at it backwards. The occupation is not a side issue but the main issue. Refusal to acknowledge it is the crux of the problem. It is not the Palestinians who do not want peace but the Israeli politicians. Occupation is not talk but a reality for millions. Will you not acknowledge its reality and its effects?
10 Pappe // Sep 28, 2007 at 7:40 pm
No one denies the occupation or the fact that it must end. You have to look at the trend and see that Israel is honestly trying to end any occupation of Arab land:
Israel withdraw from all of Sinai in 1982
Israel withdraw from most of Lebanon in the 80s and completely left Lebanon in 1999.
Israel left parts of the west bank in the 1990s.
In Oslo accord and many other accords Israel recognized the right of the Palestinian people to a state. Check those agreements careful and you will see that the Palestinian side has not accepted the Jewish people right to a home land in any of those accords.
Ask yourself who has an interest to continue the occupation?
Only those – from both sides – who think that the end result will be that they have control over all the territory. It is a zero sum game and only those not willing for a compromise want the occupation to continue:
The extremist on the Israeli side think they can keep the whole land under Israel.
The extremists on the Palestinian side think that in time they can get a majority of Palestinian to force the Jews out. Until such time they need “the occupation” as a slogan.
11 Anony mouse // Sep 28, 2007 at 9:42 pm
There you go reducing the occupation to a slogan yet again. Israel left parts of the West bank in the 1990s? Really? Would you care to look at the maps of the areas under Israeli control in the late 90s and the maps that show Israeli control now? The occupation has expanded not reduced. The most fertile parts of the Jordan valley have been taken over. Palestinians are denied permits to build on their own land by Israeli orders yet settlers can build where they like. Palestinians are separated from their land by a massive wall/fence, land which is then claimed by settlers are not being used. Palestinians are being forced out of Hebron and East Jerusalem by intimidation, persecution and racist laws. Palestinians have 30% less access to land on the west bank than they did ten years ago. Israel has not even withdrawn from Gaza because they controls its borders, shoreline and airspace. That means they are still the occupier and imprisoner of a million and half people.
Oslo was a con, meant to seduce corrupt Fatah people into agreeing a rump divided statelet which even they rejected. The unfortunate thing is that people still keep coming back to that and blaming the Palestinians for the failure of agreement, when in fact it was set up from the beginning. No, I am afraid that as long as people like you insist on inventing your own fake history and pretending that the occupation is the fault of the Palestinians, then neither side will find peace. There are ***** on both sides as I see it, but far more on the Israel side. Even the Palestinian so called extremists like Meshaal have accepted the principle of two states based on 1967 borders. So why isn’t israel talking? Because they don’t want to. The extremists run Israel and its media.
12 Pappe // Sep 29, 2007 at 5:10 am
“Oslo was a con” - that much is true. Arafat admitted that he wanted to get a “Trojan horse” into Israel, a footing from which to “liberate” all of Palestine.
Still, Oslo was recognition, by Israel, that it must give up the occupied territories and indeed it started to get out in the 1990s. If it was not for the suicide bombing campaign that forced Israel back those areas under PA control will still be with no Israeli troops. Even now, Israel enter these areas when there is a word about a new bomb campaign being plotted (such was the case last week when they entered Nablus – which lead to the capture of a bomber and the suicide Belt has already been smuggled to Tel-Aviv….
You can continue to use slogans such as “Palestinians are separated from their land by a massive wall/fence’ or realize that most of the wall is at or near the green-line border and in any case it represent the new border between two entities: An Israeli state – home of the Jewish people, and a Palestinian to be state – home of the Arab/Palestinian people.
Many settlers are against the wall because they don’t accept the fact that many settlements (on the Palestinian side of the wall) will be removed. They are against it since they don’t accept the idea of “two states” – they just want it all. You arguing against the wall show that you are not different from them.
13 Anony mouse // Sep 29, 2007 at 9:36 am
YOU ARE IN DENIAL. The fence is not a slogan. Nor is the occupation. It is a deadly devastating FACT just like the daily attacks by IDF against Palestinians. You continue to regard facts as ’slogans’ so there is no point continuing this exchange. Israeli soldiers themselves are providing testimony on the nature of the terrorism that Israel has subjected the palestinian population to. Quotes:
We - Israeli Soldiers - were put there to punish the Palestinians`, says Ilan Vilenda.
‘They disclosing their innermost emotions about the horrendous crimes, in which they took part: Murder, breaking bones of Palestinian children, actions of humiliation, destruction of property, robbery and theft.’
‘Soldier `C` testimony:
`The truth is that I love this mess - I enjoy it. It is like being on drugs.
If I didn`t enter Rafah, to put down some rebellion -at least once a week-
I`d go berserk. ‘
Soldier `E` testimony:
We drove an APC through Rafah. A man of 25 walked nearby. He didn`t hurl a
stone at us or anything. Then without any reason `X` shot him in the stomach. We left him lying on the sidewalk`.#
A woman threw a sandal at me. I kicked her with my foot at her crotch. I broke her. She can`t have children any longer. Next time she won`t throw sandals at me… and when another woman spat at me she got the butt of my gun in her face. She can`t spit now.
Then he saw a young boy, of about 4, playing in the sand in the courtyard of his home. The kid was building a castle in the sand. Suddenly the NCO, a guy from the Engineers Corps, ran to chase the kid. We followed. He captured the kid and broke his elbow. Broke the kid`s elbow! Damn me if I`m not telling the truth! Then the NCO treaded on the kid`s stomach three times, before he moved on.
Maj-Gen Eliezer Shkeidi took pride in announcing that his pilots
break the sound barrier over Gaza, producing sonic booms.These cause severe PTSD symptoms among young children; they have also caused
miscarriages among pregnant women. The indiscriminate shelling of Palestinian homes had caused many deaths lately, including many children. Perhaps last but not least: The Israeli cabinet, backed by Washington, said it would disrupt power and fuel supply to Gaza.
That makes you terrorists, Pappe. You can deny it until you are blue in the face. Your concience will have to live with it, if you have one. Goodbye
14 Pappe // Sep 29, 2007 at 12:14 pm
“There is no point continuing this exchange” - indeed.
Why because you have not grasped the difference between facts -undeniable facts like the occupation and the wall - and the FACT that you use them as slogans against Israel right to exist.
Look at your last reply – a collection of accusations.
Do you think accusations are the way to make peace.
I have told you right at the start: The occupation is wrong. The current situation is bad – both for Israelis and for Palestinians.
The only way to change it would be to recognize that the issue that must be resolved is recognizing the right of the Jewish people to a home land in the middle east.
In all out discussion, discussion in which I admitted the wrongs of the occupations and the right of the Palestinians to live ina free country SIDE by SIDE to Israel – you have not once recognize that the Jewish people have a right for a homeland.
Not recognizing this BASIC right is at the core of the continued suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis.
So if you want to get somewhere understand that accepting the FACT that there is and will be a Jewish homeland in the Middle East is the start of the road to peace. You remind me of al-awda slogan: “No Return No Peace” which means “No Return = perpetual war”… This seems exactly what you are advocating. A person that really wants peace does not lecture Israelis about “The occupation” but go to Arabs and lecture to them on accepting the rights of others. Tolerance – this is where peace starts.
15 Anony mouse // Sep 29, 2007 at 4:07 pm
They already have a effin homeland stolen from the Palestinians. It is the basic right of the Palestinians you deny. In recognising the two state solution I implicitly recognised Israel and I am happy to do so explicitly. You did not admit the wrongs of the occupation, you sought to minimise them and blame the occupation on the Palestinians. Tolerance is what you should show to Palestinians. Israel has everything, they have nothing.
16 Jenin // Sep 29, 2007 at 6:47 pm
To Anony Mouse:
“homeland stolen from the Palestinians”
“the basic right of the Palestinians you deny”
“recognising the two state solution I implicitly recognised Israel”
“wrongs of the occupation”
“they have nothing”
The man was right, you do talk in slogans.
17 Pappe // Sep 30, 2007 at 6:31 am
What a glorified Sunday ! Anony Mouse wrote: “I implicitly recognised Israel”
such a relief.
The issue is not recognizing a state called Israel - while supporting such demands (not a right) called “Right of Return”) which over time would turn Israel to a majority Palestinian country. The issue is:
To recognize that there is a right (yes – this one is a right) for a homeland for the Jewish people in the middle-east – the area that Muslim believe should be all Muslim with no rule by “infidels”….
Do you recognize the right for sovereignty by the Jewish people on the land called “Israel” in 67 borders? I do and I bet you – like most Palestinians and Arabs and Ahminagad – do not recognize this right.
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