I met in Amman today with Mohammad Bashar al Faidi, the spokesman for Hareth al Dhari, the influential head of Iraq’s Muslim Scholars Association. We talked about the possibility that the London attacks last week were a first example of spillover from Iraq. It’s too early to say of course. Perhaps in the end these most recent attacks won’t be traced back to Iraq, but there is no question the blowback is coming.
Said Al-Faidi:
The Arabs went to Afganistan and got a masters in violent Jihad, but in Iraq they’re all getting PhDs.
22 responses so far ↓
1 Ahmad Masri // Jul 5, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Charles you say, “Perhaps in the end these most recent attacks won’t be traced back to Iraq, but there is no question the blowback is coming.” have you become a Cassandra as well as pro-Hamas commentator? What you call “blowback” was happening as early as the 1980s. Was the first attack on the World Trade Center which would have killed tens of thousands blowback? Were the Embassey bombings blowback? Are the deaths of almost a 1,000,000 people in Chechnya, Bosnia, Kashmir, Southern Thailand, Phillipines, Somalia, Sudan, Algeria, and other places Blowback? You really need to reconsider your obvious starting premise - that all the faults of the world are down to misguided Western policy and nothing to do with the violent nature of political Islam. Until Islamism is defeated as a political force the killing will continue. Thats not down to “blowback”, but instead to the bloody nature of the enemies of secular humanism.
2 Jen Bradford // Jul 6, 2007 at 1:04 am
For further elaboration of what Masri says above, see Oliver Kamm’s recent post:
http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/the-islamists-a.html
At the same time, it’s absurd to ignore the fact that Islamist groups are networking and planning from Iraq, which is now jihadipalooza. It doesn’t mean they would have been teaching ceramics to deaf children if we hadn’t invaded, but there’s no denying the impact of the war.
3 greenmamba // Jul 6, 2007 at 1:04 am
To back up Ahmad Masri, Britain was a target before 9/11. (I have a saved reference somewhere of a man jailed in India who confessed to being in on a plot; there are others.)
Had Britain been attacked on 9/12, no-one would have been surprised. It wasn’t and the west divided into 2 groups: one believes 9/11 was a declaration of war, the other that it was just extreme vandalism by some naughty people who should be apprehended and treated to the full gamut of western benevolence towards criminals.
Had we stayed out of Afghanistan and Iraq, other attacks would have eventually provided the catalyst for further recruitment. There is no logic to the patter of the Islamists and their western leftist partners. Everything can be blamed on anyone or anything but Muslims.
4 Kebz // Jul 6, 2007 at 7:43 am
History didn’t begin in 1993 or 2001. The genocide in Palestine began decades before. Evictions, house demolitions and torture are still occuring even of Fatah supporters in the West Bank. Western collusion with Arab dictators, Western backed coups in Iran and Iraq etc happened decades ago. Why do people conveniently forget this history? The argument that Islamists dont apply logic is a false one. Oliver Kamm is a weasel with no credibility whatsoever. Explaining it all as due to violent islam is deliberately ignoring the cynical western policy that has encouraged divide and rule around the world and western geopolitical thinking. It was the USA who encouraged, funded and built Al-Qaida. The muslim brotherhood were encouraged initially by the west. Israel helped to found Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO. All verifiable facts but ignored by people who would rather blame ‘evil muslims’. You people need to take your head out of the sand and remove the racist rubbish from your brain. Switching out of hatred mode might help you think properly.
5 Jen Bradford // Jul 6, 2007 at 9:22 am
Excuse me Krebz, but on what planet is detonating a bomb aimed at young women out dancing a “logical” response to Western policy in the Muslim world?
Your inability to regard the jihadis as inherently racist demonstrates a blind spot of your own.
6 Benjamin // Jul 6, 2007 at 9:36 am
What a bad debate! I guess Charles perfectly knows that the Western world is not Satan and that radical Islamism had started to kill well before the Iraq invasion. But yes, as Jen Bradford says, we can’t ignore that the Iraqi mess has allowed terrorist networks to develop. So, why no calling it a blowback? Isn’t Iraq a failure in the war against terrorism? That’s all it means. Now, people read what they want to read. Oh, and we also have the “western leftist partners” of the terrorists and the “Palestinian genocide”. How great.
7 Kebz // Jul 6, 2007 at 10:33 am
Don’t change the subject, Jren Bradford. I didn’t even attempt to justify your scenario, nor would I ever justify that kind of thing. I don’t have a blind spot when it comes to condeming violence unlike some people. Jihadis are not racist and actually come come from a variety of backgrounds and have various skin colours. Don’t let your ignorance make you look stupid.
8 Jen Bradford // Jul 6, 2007 at 11:17 am
Hi Benjamin. My objection to “blowback” is directed at the people who imagine the jihadis wouldn’t have cited another pretext if we’d never invaded Iraq. I feel similar impatience with those who think it’s our war to “stop”, by bringing the troops home. Fallout, consequences, sure - but “blowback” has a different vibe: chickens coming home to roost, etc.
Kebz, the idea that a group of religious fundamentalists who regard infidels as unworthy of life are “not racist” is risible.
9 Ahmad Masri // Jul 6, 2007 at 11:22 am
Kebz is an obvious British/American/Israeli provacateur for Hamas. Its best to ignore the rubbish that he espouses and stick with the facts. Unfortunatly in Charles Leveson he has a pro-Hamas fellow traveller.
Kebez states”Evictions, house demolitions and torture are still occuring even of Fatah supporters in the West Bank.” and “You people need to take your head out of the sand and remove the racist rubbish from your brain.”
Talking about “head in the sand” Kebz is rich coming from you. This only weeks after Hamas terrorists butchered 100s of Fatah men throughout Gaza, destroyed PA bases and properties, threw people off 15 floor tower blocks, executed Al Aqsa men in cold blood in the main squares, destroyed the tomb of teh fallen soldier in Gaza, desecrated the offices of the president and Arafat’s home, imposed Sharia law, ended all free political discourse.
I repeat Hamas are Iranian agents and are in the process of destroying teh Palestinian movement.
Charles should be exposing these thugs for who they are not publishing article or article filled with Hamas propaganda!
10 Kebz // Jul 6, 2007 at 11:27 am
Such are the attitudes of US troops, zionists and settlers against Arabs and muslims that they call them cockroaches, two-legged beasts, sand-niggers and Hajis. Now that is what I call racist. Unfortunately the half-blind only see half of the equation. They don’t see the terrorism committed against muslims only that committed by muslims. That ideological blindness by both sides prevents a solution. Parrotting what you have heard about religious fundamentalists does not shed any light on their aims or values. Sure there are blind ideological people on the jihadist side but most have concrete demands connected with the occupation and persecution of muslims. Failure to understand this or to acknowledge that the ideologically blind are on both sides, is risible.
11 Jen Bradford // Jul 6, 2007 at 12:07 pm
My dear Kebz, the jihadis are very explicit about their aims and values, and I reject them. My rejection has nothing to do with race. As far as they are concerned, I am a “slag” who deserves to have my flesh lacerated with rusty nails for imagining I have a right to think and live as I do. Do you imagine there is such a thing as an Islamic fundamentalist who isn’t an antisemite or a misogynist?
12 Kebz // Jul 6, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I will leave your in your state of ignorance dear Jen. Blue and Red are not the only colours of the spectrum. There are plenty of islamic fundamentalists who are neither. I notice your ignore the other side yet again as does Masri the mouthpiece for zionist zealots. In fact nobody desecrated Arafats home -they even showed it intact on television with Hamas saying they would preserve it in his memory. Masri is a racist troll with ideological blindness every bit as intense as any islamic or jewish fundamentalist. Perhaps if Dahlan and his thugs had not terrorised Gaza and been backed and armed by Israel/US, the situation would not have happened. The same men who Hamas executed were involved in torture and shooting of Hamas members. Who is worse? Both equally bad in my book. Nor did Hamas start Shariah law, nor did they end free political discourse. They are still working with remaining Fatah members -those who are not stooges of Abbas, and they have asked for dialogue and had the door slammed in their faces. Doesn’t quite fit your bucketful of lies does it Masri? Anyway, I don’t want to turn Charles’ blog into a battleground as I recognise a blind troll when I see one. In future, I will comment on the usually excellent content of the blog only.
13 stick // Jul 6, 2007 at 5:12 pm
“…that which you are fighting for is of no account. Here, let me throw the correct slogan at you…”
Listen to yourselves, please.
14 Peter // Jul 6, 2007 at 8:15 pm
This is why peace is so elusive. So many people think they know everything and instead of debating -with- each other, and considering each other’s points, they argue -at- each other and dismiss each others points. To them trying to understand the other side’s point of view as Charles makes an effort to do is treason. This isn’t about coming up with a workable solution to them because they don’t believe that to be possible. Their side is just and the other side is evil. That’s all there is to it.
So it’s all about supporting your team and helping them “win”. Anybody who says even the smallest positive thing about the other team is also an enemy. And so in the end nobody wins and everybody loses, because short of a genocidal nuclear holocaust, nobody has the force needed to win this despite what some might think. The more force you use, the more people you radicalize and make your enemy. And so instead of drying up the swamp of terror, you only make it deeper.
15 Jen Bradford // Jul 7, 2007 at 3:58 am
Detonating a bomb in a crowd of innocent civilians can’t be justified on any grounds whatsoever. It’s not closed-minded to take a clear position about that, and it also doesn’t mean I’m blind to atrocities my country has perpetrated. The idea that such clarity “breeds” more terror is silly.
16 Achillea // Jul 7, 2007 at 6:13 pm
“The more force you use, the more people you radicalize and make your enemy.”
This has become an article of faith in certain quarters, which is unfortunate, because it’s simply not true. Just ask the Carthaginians.
The cold, hard reality of war is it’s not the application of too much force that radicalizes your opponent, it’s the application of /too little/. The entire area of what is now the United States used to be the territory of various Amerind tribes. It was taken from them by force, yet there’s no ‘radicalized Amerind insurgency’ and hasn’t been for quite some time. Why? Because they were totally and unquestionably /conquered/. The Carthaginians I mentioned above ceased to be a problem for Rome, because they were /annihilated/. On the other hand, the Palestinian ‘armed struggle’ stupidity has persisted for over half a century purely because Israel hasn’t brought enough force to bear to crush the radicalizing delusion the Pals can win.
It’s called Total War. It means killing as many of your enemy as it takes for the survivors to submit to whatever terms you choose to name. It means surrender or die. Now, you can argue till the cows come home about the morality of it (in general or in specific instances), but there’s no doubt as to its efficacy. And it doesn’t require nuclear holocaust — purely conventional genocide, in sufficient measure, will generally do the trick. Am I advocating that? Not at all. But don’t think for an instant that it isn’t doable or wouldn’t work.
The irony of it all is the ones incapable of waging or surviving Total War (Hamas, Hezballah, Al Qaida, all the rest of the Islamofascist idiots) are the ones announcing themselves as committed irrevocably to it.
So be it. Call it slow motion Total War. We’ll just keep killing them until they surrender or die.
17 Don Cox // Jul 8, 2007 at 6:43 pm
“the idea that a group of religious fundamentalists who regard infidels as unworthy of life are “not racist” is risible.”____Hating infidels is not racism, because infidels are not a race. It is religious intolerance. Maybe you could call it “religionism”. Every religion includes some people like that, but right now the worst cases seem to be Muslims.
18 Jen Bradford // Jul 8, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I’ve always regarded antisemitism as something different from “religious intolerance” myself, but I take your point.
19 Eamonn McDonagh // Jul 8, 2007 at 10:29 pm
kebz talk about the “genocide” in palestine. It must be the only one in history which has caused the population of the its “victims” to increase in size.
20 Kebz // Jul 9, 2007 at 12:02 pm
The population of Jews worldwide has increased despite the holocaust that does not mean the holocaust did not happen. The population of Cambodians has risen despite PolPot. The population of Japan has risen despite the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The population of Palestinian refugees has increased because believe it or not they have children. It is in line with the worldwide increase in populations everywhere.
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” said Ben-Gurion, the father of the zionist nation. That terror has not stopped nor have the lying appeasers of this fascism.
21 Adi Braith // Aug 26, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Take me to your daddy’s far. Adi Braith.
22 Joey Hadassah // Oct 21, 2007 at 7:28 pm
i’m losing my mind, and i don’t think it’s cleve. Joey Hadassah.
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